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	<title>Comments on: Walk the Walk Before Talking the Talk</title>
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	<link>http://claylo.com/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk</link>
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		<title>By: A neat little piece by Clay Loveless</title>
		<link>http://claylo.com/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/comment-page-1#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>A neat little piece by Clay Loveless</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 12:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://claylo.com/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-37</guid>
		<description>[...] back to what I was really wanting to post about&#8230; I ran across an article of Clay&#8217;s today that I think that any PHP developer needs to read. If you do not know Clay, or have not read that post, give it a read. It is worth the time for any [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] back to what I was really wanting to post about&#8230; I ran across an article of Clay&#8217;s today that I think that any PHP developer needs to read. If you do not know Clay, or have not read that post, give it a read. It is worth the time for any [...]</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; Zaujalo mě</title>
		<link>http://claylo.com/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/comment-page-1#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Zaujalo mě</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://claylo.com/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-36</guid>
		<description>[...] Walk the Walk Before Talking the Talk [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Walk the Walk Before Talking the Talk [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Feedsterite Roundup at The Story of Feedster</title>
		<link>http://claylo.com/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/comment-page-1#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>Feedsterite Roundup at The Story of Feedster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://claylo.com/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-35</guid>
		<description>[...] Clay Loveless: &#8220;A question that eventually comes up for programmers who stick with it long enough is: Am I an expert yet? Do I have the chops to throw down with The Big Kids?&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Clay Loveless: &#8220;A question that eventually comes up for programmers who stick with it long enough is: Am I an expert yet? Do I have the chops to throw down with The Big Kids?&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Point, Counterpoint at Random Strings</title>
		<link>http://claylo.com/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/comment-page-1#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Point, Counterpoint at Random Strings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2006 18:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://claylo.com/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-34</guid>
		<description>[...] About        &#171; Walk the Walk Before Talking the Talk [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] About        &laquo; Walk the Walk Before Talking the Talk [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Clay</title>
		<link>http://claylo.com/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/comment-page-1#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>Clay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2006 16:29:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://claylo.com/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-33</guid>
		<description>Jason: Cheers! I hope to climb higher on the ladder myself. I often still find myself at the crossroads of a new project being tugged by my old bad habits. I&#039;ll think &quot;nah, *this* doesn&#039;t need to be in Subversion...&quot; but really it&#039;s much easier to just decide on everything going in, so your bases are covered.

Xing: You&#039;re absolutely right about knowing what&#039;s going on in each line of code. Ideally, in a well-formed class/package, there&#039;s been some thought put into segmenting out the essential pieces so that you&#039;re not required to load up a bunch of overhead crap just to use a method or two. As for LoveCookies.com -- after putting on too much weight running that effort, plus having our first child, my wife and I decided to close that down. ;) Was a great learning experience, though!

Shawn: Ultimately I just came to the realization that for now, if you want to use PEAR libs, you can&#039;t run under E_STRICT. Slowly but surely more and more PEAR packages are evolving to E_STRICT compliance, but I suspect it&#039;ll be another year or two before we get there. In the meantime, I&#039;ve been developing with Zend Studio 5 and running the &quot;Analyze Code&quot; routine over my code and checking to make sure that the debug output isn&#039;t complaining about E_STRICT problems in what I&#039;ve written. That way I&#039;ll be in the clear when my dependencies are E_STRICT-ready.

Paul: I agree -- some core competencies are certainly a pre-requisite. However, I feel like otherwise mediocre-to-poor developers can be made passable through the adherence to some Best Practices.

After all, even my grandmother can grasp a &#039;switch&#039; statement; she executes one every time she goes out to run errands. &quot;If this store is too crowded, go to this one instead and pass back by the first one on my way home...&quot; and so on and so on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason: Cheers! I hope to climb higher on the ladder myself. I often still find myself at the crossroads of a new project being tugged by my old bad habits. I&#8217;ll think &#8220;nah, *this* doesn&#8217;t need to be in Subversion&#8230;&#8221; but really it&#8217;s much easier to just decide on everything going in, so your bases are covered.</p>
<p>Xing: You&#8217;re absolutely right about knowing what&#8217;s going on in each line of code. Ideally, in a well-formed class/package, there&#8217;s been some thought put into segmenting out the essential pieces so that you&#8217;re not required to load up a bunch of overhead crap just to use a method or two. As for LoveCookies.com &#8212; after putting on too much weight running that effort, plus having our first child, my wife and I decided to close that down. <img src='http://claylo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  Was a great learning experience, though!</p>
<p>Shawn: Ultimately I just came to the realization that for now, if you want to use PEAR libs, you can&#8217;t run under E_STRICT. Slowly but surely more and more PEAR packages are evolving to E_STRICT compliance, but I suspect it&#8217;ll be another year or two before we get there. In the meantime, I&#8217;ve been developing with Zend Studio 5 and running the &#8220;Analyze Code&#8221; routine over my code and checking to make sure that the debug output isn&#8217;t complaining about E_STRICT problems in what I&#8217;ve written. That way I&#8217;ll be in the clear when my dependencies are E_STRICT-ready.</p>
<p>Paul: I agree &#8212; some core competencies are certainly a pre-requisite. However, I feel like otherwise mediocre-to-poor developers can be made passable through the adherence to some Best Practices.</p>
<p>After all, even my grandmother can grasp a &#8217;switch&#8217; statement; she executes one every time she goes out to run errands. &#8220;If this store is too crowded, go to this one instead and pass back by the first one on my way home&#8230;&#8221; and so on and so on.</p>
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		<title>By: Coomey.net</title>
		<link>http://claylo.com/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/comment-page-1#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Coomey.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2006 16:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://claylo.com/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-32</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Walk the Walk......&lt;/strong&gt;

I ran across a really good blog entry by Clay Loveless (of Feedster fame) yesterday that really cut to the heart of what it means to call yourself a software developer. In his words: discipline. I highly recommend everyone who considers themselves a de...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Walk the Walk&#8230;&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>I ran across a really good blog entry by Clay Loveless (of Feedster fame) yesterday that really cut to the heart of what it means to call yourself a software developer. In his words: discipline. I highly recommend everyone who considers themselves a de&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Crowley</title>
		<link>http://claylo.com/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/comment-page-1#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Crowley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://claylo.com/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-31</guid>
		<description>No amount of discipline will altogether compensate for a lack of talent.  Both are needed.  For some projects other skills, such as empathy for your client/prospective user, also come into play.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No amount of discipline will altogether compensate for a lack of talent.  Both are needed.  For some projects other skills, such as empathy for your client/prospective user, also come into play.</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn Coomey</title>
		<link>http://claylo.com/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/comment-page-1#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn Coomey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:51:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://claylo.com/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Clay:
&gt; Shawn: Thanks for the kind words :)

You are very welcome. Thanks for the great blog. :)

&gt; I stuck with E_ALL in the Feedster frontend re-write since it depends on so many PEAR libraries which aren’t E_STRICT compliant.

I&#039;d love to know how this worked out for you in your development efforts. I too use a LOT of PEAR libs in my applications and almost all of them throw tons of notices when strict reporting is turned on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clay:<br />
&gt; Shawn: Thanks for the kind words <img src='http://claylo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>You are very welcome. Thanks for the great blog. <img src='http://claylo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>&gt; I stuck with E_ALL in the Feedster frontend re-write since it depends on so many PEAR libraries which aren’t E_STRICT compliant.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d love to know how this worked out for you in your development efforts. I too use a LOT of PEAR libs in my applications and almost all of them throw tons of notices when strict reporting is turned on.</p>
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		<title>By: Pet Pixels</title>
		<link>http://claylo.com/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/comment-page-1#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>Pet Pixels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://claylo.com/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-29</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Walking the walk...&lt;/strong&gt;

Clay Loveless has an excellent article on professional PHP development attitudes.

I couldn&#039;t agree more about the rules, especially that last one. My own PHP coding (in pretty much the exact circumstances described!) has come on by leaps and bounce...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Walking the walk&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Clay Loveless has an excellent article on professional PHP development attitudes.</p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more about the rules, especially that last one. My own PHP coding (in pretty much the exact circumstances described!) has come on by leaps and bounce&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Willbanks</title>
		<link>http://claylo.com/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/comment-page-1#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Willbanks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://claylo.com/2006/02/16/walk-the-walk-before-talking-the-talk/#comment-28</guid>
		<description>Xing Li (The comment before this one),

While I agree with your statement about not making everything into objects, however, if you are working on a bid enough project it makes more sense to make them into objects.  Each object contains a layer of functionality along with a the code that implements these routines.  This allows you to do many different things.

One of them being consistancy which you complain about earlier.  Also in most objects you shouldn&#039;t need to use a constructor.  It might just be bad design when you are looking at some of those.

Allowing for static methods you can utilize an object somewhat like a namespace which then allows for much more consistancy.  Controlling the flow of performance is almost just as great if you utilize your objects correctly, if not sometimes better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Xing Li (The comment before this one),</p>
<p>While I agree with your statement about not making everything into objects, however, if you are working on a bid enough project it makes more sense to make them into objects.  Each object contains a layer of functionality along with a the code that implements these routines.  This allows you to do many different things.</p>
<p>One of them being consistancy which you complain about earlier.  Also in most objects you shouldn&#8217;t need to use a constructor.  It might just be bad design when you are looking at some of those.</p>
<p>Allowing for static methods you can utilize an object somewhat like a namespace which then allows for much more consistancy.  Controlling the flow of performance is almost just as great if you utilize your objects correctly, if not sometimes better.</p>
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